Author Topic: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon Pinging (Read 7650 times)

akirkley · « **on:** June 04, 2004, 12:54:30 pm »

We purchased a new Subaru Legacy L wagon with 2.5 litre 4 cyl. and automatic transmission in April 2002. We keep getting pinging going up hills at lower speeds. We have taken it into the dealer 6 times but the problem keeps on returning. We use 87 octane fuel as recommended in the manual. The dealer has replaced the knock sensor and the ECM but the problem keeps on returning. Has anyone else had this problem with this make and model? Does anyone have any ideas about what to do? What are the long term effects if we can't get the problem fixed?

chrischasescars · « **Reply #1 on:** June 04, 2004, 01:03:54 pm »

What kind of driving do you do, primarily, and what kind of mileage does the car have?

Carbon build up can cause pinging, but that doesn't make sense on a two-year old car.

What else has the dealer tried in tracking down the source of the problem?

Will an engine ping if the fuel mixture is too lean? I know that can cause detonation, but I'm not positive if pinging and detonation are the same thing. Perhaps the engine isn't getting enough fuel under load.

Just a couple of ideas. I've never had to deal with a ping myself, so that's all I can suggest as possibilities.

Good luck. I'm certain someone here will be able to offer some help.

Also, maybe check a Subaru forum to see if anyone has had a similar problem with their Outback, or any motor. Your Outback's engine has a lot in common with Subaru's other non-turbo four-cylinders, and the 2.5 is used in several other models as well.
Try www.NASIOC.com It's technically an Impreza site, but there are forums dealing with other Subie models. It's a huge site with tons of members, and lots of knowledgeable people too.

On a funny aside, a college buddy of mine had a Chevette that had so much carbon in the head that it would ping and knock and refuse to run well on anything but premium.

(Message edited by stickshift on June 04, 2004)

ovr50 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 04, 2004, 01:15:46 pm »

I have owned two Subies and both had that engine. Neither one every ever pinged under any condition and I always ran regular gas. Just out of curiousity, have you tried mid-grade or even premium fuel? Might solve it (although it should run correctly on regular).

Driver · « **Reply #3 on:** June 04, 2004, 01:34:44 pm »

Akirkley, try this... if your uphill speed is between 50-60, shift to 3 and listen if it still pings. If 30-40, shift to 2 and listen again. i hope this works.

inco · « **Reply #4 on:** June 04, 2004, 01:39:33 pm »

Going up a grade in gas should make it go away albeit a little more expensively.

The best solution I can think of is a tune up. New plugs, or at least pulling the ones you have and look at them and cleaning them and also check the MAF sensor to see that it is ok because the timing might be a little off.

The hills bring it out and so maybe overloaded conditions are causing this..

It's a good engine and we are on our second and never a problem with pinging but then we don't have many hills here in Ontario to worry about.

johngenx · « **Reply #5 on:** June 04, 2004, 01:40:49 pm »

Before taking the car back to the dealer, try changing gas stations/brands. Ya never know...

Maybe another dealer?

We have an 01 Legacy Outback with AT, and it never pings. Not normal. We never put anything other than 87 in the tank.

jpd · « **Reply #6 on:** June 04, 2004, 11:09:05 pm »

Akirkley, I do not have the answer! But just in case something worse happens, make sure to make a file with all the information regarding the problem & your unsuccesful visits at the dealer. We are never too careful.

decaraficionado · « **Reply #7 on:** June 06, 2004, 06:23:05 am »

Are u 100% sure it's ping? The sound can easily be from defective cv shafts. One way to prove it is try a tank of premium, if the sound is still there, then it's most likely the knocking sound from cv shafts.

scottk · « **Reply #8 on:** June 16, 2004, 05:34:00 pm »

I have a '01 Legacy that started pinging after about 30K, same as situation as Akirkley. I returned it to the dealer many times and they basically tell me that it is minor but I don't think so. I can only hear it when the windows are open but it sure is loud. I have been around cars all my life and I know ping when I hear it. I have tried several different kinds of plugs. The dealer de-carbonized the engine and cleaned the FE system. No change. All filters changed, new knock sensor, new thermostat (thought it might be running hot). No change. If I run 2 range cooler plugs, that helps but does not eliminate the problem. I have to run 93octane premium to minimize the problem but it still pings a little. It must be running lean. Plugs are white. My wife has an '01 legacy GT, runs fine on regular, no pinging. I'm frustrated. I know have almost 60K on the car and the pinging is getting worse, even with HT fuel. I'm thinking maybe O2 sensors but they are expensive and hard to get to. Maybe Mass air flow sensor. No codes in ECM. Laptop analysis says everything perfect. I'm baffled. Any ideas??? I would appreciate any input. Thanks in advance.

johngenx · « **Reply #9 on:** June 16, 2004, 05:46:21 pm »

Lean out? I wonder if there is a fuel pressure problem? That should set off an OBD-II code, but we all know the OBD-II system is not fool proof.

A failing Mass Airflow Sensor would possibly lead to a lean or rich condition (on Mercedes vehicles, it always fails rich, but I don't know about Subaru) the other culprits might be a fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, or maybe a filter? If you've changed the fuel filter, that is out.

Tough one!

S60 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 16, 2004, 07:12:14 pm »

Subaru has had trouble with faulty knock sensors
for many years.
When you had the knock sensor replaced, did it help at all.

scottk · « **Reply #11 on:** June 16, 2004, 08:44:37 pm »

Changing the knock sensor did nothing at all. Dealer analysis said that the spark retard was working fine. Maybe the ping is low level enough not to trigger the knock sensor. I do know that if I run regular fuel now that I have a notable decrease in performance, probably from the spark retard. I am curious now about the fuel pressure, I did change the filter but it could be any of the other components. I also wonder about an EGR problem although I can't find an EGR valve on this engine unless it is internal. My 1999 Outback 2.5 had a EGR valve but this one does not seem to. I have had other cars before with this type of ping when the EGR didn't function properly. Does anyone know if this engine has an EGR valve?? It is a USA version, 2.5 but does not have CA emission system. Thanks for the input.

safristi · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2004, 10:01:29 am »

Faulty Knockers hell thats almost as serious as Toxic Waist!!!!

toxic waste

angelinal · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2004, 01:12:17 am »

We too purchased a brand new 2002 automatic, 4 cyliner, Subaru Outback in Victoria (in April of 2002), and have the same pinging problems as Akirkley. The car has been pinging since we bought it and we have been back to the dealership repeatedly. The computer has been changed, reprogrammed a few times, the knock sensor has been changed, as have the spark plugs, etc. The car does ping less with the highest and most expensive grade of gas, but it's still there. We've tried many different gas companies, and the problem still persists. This is a pinging problem, although the dealership can't seem to fix it! Very frustrating and disappointing to say the least.

vilici · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2004, 02:19:15 pm »

I have the same problem with 2002 Subaru Outback H4 2.5L. However I've changed spark plugs with "colder" NGK BKR7ES-11 and it seems to be better. The questions is for how long.
My oppinion is that this was caused with new "engine short block" they (Subaru of Canada) replaced in Feb. 2002. Ever since then I've noticed that things are getting worse and worse. I'm thinking this is because compression is now higher (210 PSI) then normal (185 PSI) and therefore this causes engine ping. Also, when I use 94 AKI fuel (MOHAWK, HUSKY, CHEVRON, ...) it is ok.
Could there be something related to the region? I don't know, BC, Pacific coast. Nanimo, Victoria, Burnaby...
Cheers,
Voja

barrie1 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 20, 2004, 01:34:06 am »

Welcome to the Forum Vilici, Sounds like your engine with the higher Compression has put you in the Premium level of fuel. When they did the work they upgraded your engine to a tighter higher standard consquently giving you a higher need for octane. If the engine runs good on it then there should not be any problems with it.

vilici · « **Reply #16 on:** July 20, 2004, 12:55:34 pm »

Barrie1,

Thanks for your kind welcome.
I agree with you that higher compression causes higher AKI fuel but this (engine replacement) happened long time ago and at the beginning I was able to use 87AKI. Now it progressed so much that I have to run on 94AKI + colder plugs. My problem is that I'm not sure if this is resolved since when I changed my plugs last time (a month ago) I had noticed that electrode on plug on cylinder No. 2 is pretty much worn after only 5K km. Btw, I’m talking NGK Iridium plugs.
Anyway, I’m trying to reach somebody in Subaru of Canada and I was wondering if there is more users that have this problem if they can e-mail me at ilicvoja@hotmail.com so I can put them on the list. We’ll see if I’ll be able to move things forward.
Voja

angelinal · « **Reply #17 on:** July 20, 2004, 01:34:48 pm »

Further to my posting, we notice that although the pinging is not as loud (but still there) when using the highest grade of gas (94 octane Chevron), that the car is sluggish, has less power and runs rough. We should not have to use the highest octane of fuel for this car as Subaru recommends 'regular' fuel in their manual. Also, our sales person at Subaru advised us that 'regular' fuel is what we should use. We did NOT buy the car, so that we would have to buy premium fuel!!!

mark · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2004, 12:05:24 pm »

Could this possibly be an altitude problem? I don't know the region but here's my thinking if it was altitude related:
1) Higher altitude with thinner air;
2) Low oxygen content of "thin air" causes system to run rich with fuel;
3) Rich condition persists for a period of time causing carbon build up?

Vilici's comments about a revised block with higher compression, but still recommend 87 octane fuel could have been the straw that broke the camel's back - so to speak.

(I'm probably way off, but I like to pretend with the tech talk...)

frp · « **Reply #19 on:** July 25, 2004, 11:28:57 pm »

Hi:
I have a 2003 Subaru Legacy GT sedan exhibiting much of the same problems as noted above. I live in Mississauga, near Lake Ontario. I have engine pinging which is reduced with the higher octane I put into the car. However, even with 91 octane there is still faint pinging on hot days or when the engine is under load, such as climbing a hill. The dealership in Mississauga said that everything was within tolerance when I asked them to check it under warranty. With gas prices the way they are, I'm peeved that I have to spend an extra 11 cents per litre just so I don't feel embarassed driving my car around the city. That, and I have to think that prolonged pinging cannot be good for the longevity of the engine.

I'll be watching this thread for any insight....
Thanks all.
FRP

Author Topic: 2002 Subaru Legacy L Wagon Pinging (Read 7650 times)

S60