Topic: How much would you think my car is worth?

[mineroller]

A mazda dealer told me they would pay $250 for my car..what would you suggest? i would like a second opinion ..
I was thinking of $500-ish range..am i too optimistic?

Good stuff about my car:
-1991 Plymouth Sundance, 5-door sedan, 3-spd Auto tranny
-2.5L engine
-Very clean exterior(i mean it..it even shines well enough after a wash) , minimum rust
-Powered everthing - windows, mirrors, driver's seat adjusters, locks..the whole shaboom
-Air conditioning that works very well
-Pioneer AM/FM/CD Player that i installed
-Sunroof
-excellent sound insulation

Bad stuff about my car:
-front shocks are basically gone.
-engine burns coolant like crazy - must refill them at least once in two weeks. seems like head gasket is dying. (says my mechanic)
-reserve coolant tank doesn't flow..the coolant just stays there,not decreasing.(the radiator works well and coolant does circulate...but somehow the reserve tank stopped flowing ever since the coolant-burning became significant.)

So the bottom line is, the engine has issues and new shocks are needed, but everything else is very very good.

The car is very drivable, the air conditioning is sweet and with new front shocks it should last at least another couple years, given that the owner knows how to care for an old vehicle.  
I made Montreal-Hamilton trip with just a while ago this boy without any problem..(apart from refilling coolant on the way back)

I mean, the CD-player alone is worth about $200..

What do you think?

(Message edited by mineroller on May 18, 2004)

[mrthompson]

How many kms are on the car?

[eax]

Seriously, $250 is all the money a dealer would want to pay for a car like that.  They could lump discount onto trade and show you $500 if they wanted, but your not really going to get anything more for it.  I would have offered $100.  Cars like this are common on trade in.  Neil, want to chime in? It's cooked man. It is a wholesale piece.  TOPS the car is worth $1700-$2000 retail but only if it was in tip-top shape.  Like you said needs: shocks, head gasket, burning coolant? = big engine repair.  You can't sell this, it would be a big headache even if the person knows what they are buying they can still come back on you.  Just take the money and be done with it.  It sounds like it served you well.

[Mdxtasy]

I think you are lucky with $250.  With the engine in the shape that it's in....it isn't worth anything to the dealer to put money into it to fix it up.  

And your CD player is not worth $200....it might be to you but it's used and is worth $50 to the dealer.  If you think it is worth 2 bills, take it out and sell it yourself.

[johngenx]

Good running cars, ANY cars, are worth $1500 to $2000.  Bad running cars are "mechanics specials" are are nearly worthless.  Your car falls into the latter category.  No one likes a "can of worms" which is what that coolant consumption problem is.  It can't be left as sooner or later the engine is going to hydrolock and spit the crank out through the oil pan, or bend a few rods and hole a piston or two.  I doubt there is two years left before that happens.

Frankly, I'm surprised that they offered to take it.  I bet they're just giving you a $250 discount on your car and plan on having your old car hauled away.  They'll get $50 scrap for it, so they're eating $200.

As to used stereo gear, you have to have a $1000+ new price head unit to fetch $200 in the used market.  If it's worth ANYTHING, tell the dealer you want to remove it.  Sell it on the Bargain Finder.

Honestly, it's time to get rid of it.  It's a $1500 car in good shape, and it's going to cost $1500 to get it there.  Then, you've just spent $1500 to get $1500.  Spend zero and get a few hundred?  Sounds like the smart bet to me.

[ovr50]

Mineroller - I agree with the advise above - take the $ and run or sell it privately for a couple hundred bucks (and don't lie about the condition). It's not a biggie either way, just get on with the deal.

[mineroller]

Thank you all for the helpful infos..!
Yeah..i guess my car is really a crap..
If i get to lease a new car with that dealer..i will just give it to them for 250..or one of my friend is interested in the car (he knows the condition well) and i might sell it to him..

Anyways, thank you all again for your input.

Jonathan

[barrie1]

Sorry to have to tell the Bad News about your car but the Cylinder Head is cracked or Blown Headgasket on No.1 cylinder. These engines were famous for this and rather pricey to fix as well. If your Friend is interested let him spend the money or salvage any and all usable parts. At least the car will still serve some useful purpose that way.

[mineroller]

That's what my mechanic said too..probably the head gasket is blown....

Um..then..Mr. Barrie, would you be able to help me with my question here?

Here's the data about my engine:

-It's 2.5L engine with 165,000 km on odometer.
-I get about 6.5km/L or 15.38L/100km efficiency
-Last summer, the alternator and water pump belt ripped off on highway, and engine badly overheated.
-When idling in low rpm, between 800-1000, the engine vibration is very big, to the point the car shakes. At revs greater than 1000 the vibrations disappear.
-Engine knocking is present.
-like I said the coolant burns inside engine.
-Spark plugs and wirings are replaced with new ones recently.

With this information in mind, which would be a better choice, given a limited budget (let say no more than 3000)?
Fix this engine back to its shape, or get another used vehicle?

My guess is that with 3000 bucks..i probably won't easily find a car that is as well equipped and in good exterior shape as this one..(and it's quite spacious too..which i like very much..) but i may be wrong..

Also, about how much do you think the engine repair would cost?

[johngenx]

Badly overheated?  Not good.

Without tearing into the engine, it's impossible to tell how extensive the wear/damage is.  But, I'd be hesitant about putting a new top end on that bottom end.  Since it's knocking, I'm sure the bottom has been stressed "a tad."

I would bet that the engine mounts are also toast.

Here's the problem you face.  The car is a $1500 car, fixed.  But, since you like it, it's worth more to you.  You could probably find a used engine and have it installed for about $1500.  Anything "new" repair wise is going to cost tons.  Just a new top end would run $1200-$1500.  By the time all is said and done, you'll be $2K light, maybe more.

If you bought a $3000 used something-else, at least it's worth $3000.  BUT, you might have a new can of worms.  Sometimes the devil you know, eh?

You're in a difficult spot.  $3000 is a terrible market spot.  It's enough money that you expect to buy something that runs well, but most of the cars in that price range are pretty used and long term reliability is gone.

If $3000 is the total amount of cash you have, this is what I would do...

Have credit?  Take $2000 (NOT $3000) and borrow another $4000.  At $6K it's possible to find pretty good used cars.  Keep the $1000 cash for potential repairs.

OR, take the $3000 and use it as a down on a new car (cheap financing) or a late model used car. (I've seen 03 Corolla's for $14K or so, as an example)

[barrie1]

I think that John may be right on this one as the engine in your car is Very Hard to get even used at the wreckers. This was a Poor Design build with the water Jackets too thin on No.1 Cylinder. This is the Cylinder closeset to the Drivers side of the car. To re-build this engine would also be Hard to do as you will most certainley have to replace the Head. They Cracked too easily and had to be replaced on a almost Reg Basis. If you can do some research and see what other motor you can fit in might be your best bet.  Call your local Wreckers and explain what your problem is maybe they can put a Slightly Different Model Engine in for you. The 2.5 is not a re-useable friendly engine for this purpose. Either John's way or my Suggestion is about your 2 Best Options for your pocket.  

[inco]

Mineroller - you have some real good advice given to you above here. Heed it.

Personally why not sell it to your friend and let him worry. Dealers don't want it - and you can tell that already so let your friend buy it or keep it for yourself and look around for another engine.

Take your time and you may come across a bargain.  

If you buy another car you can take your time and you might get lucky but I don't think there are any other engine choices for that car and regardless it's still a bad design.

[safristi]

Bye bye friend.....!!!!wot me worry!!

[mineroller]

I see..
Well, again and again, thank you very much for all your input and advices. I learned even more great deal of stuff I just can't cease to be amazed at the members in this forum!

The car is getting worse now..the engine noise just nearly doubled yesterday morning midway during my trip to sunday church service..Now my car sounds like an old farm tractor.(i can't describe the sound in proper english...the closest i can get is, imagine the muffler sound of classic muscle cars like 70's mustang or corvette.. and make that engine sound very cheesy and noisy and annoying, you get my sound.) I think it's just better to throw it away sooner or later... unless my friend 'still' wants this thing..

The thing is though, i use this car nearly every single day for lots of purposes, and if i have to throw this thing away i need an immediate replacement..and not enough cash to buy another 'acceptable' car or credit to make any loan..

Little difficult situation..I just hope this thing can stay alive at least during this summer..

[barrie1]

Keep an eye on your oil and Rad levels as they are Mixing to-gether and creating very Nasty Conditions inside of the engine. There is no time length available for you to guess how long it will last as it sounds like its getting a lot worse. Only time will tell how long you have with it. Talk to your Friend soon as a suggestion.  

[johngenx]

There are some things that might happen, and one of them will happen fairly soon...

1. The engine oil will become so diluted with coolant that it will spin a bearing or seize the oil pump.

2. The coolant will fill a cylinder, and since it cannot compress, if the volume is enough, the engine will hydrolock, and break.

3. The coolant will leak from the headgasket and the engine will overheat, possibly to the point of destruction.

4. The coolant fill in the cylinder will not cause hydrolock, but instead will burn tons of white smoke out the tailpipe.  Prepare for police attention should you be doing a James Bond impression.

If you cannot afford another car, you will probably be relegated to mass transit.  I'm not being glib.  For some time when we were younger, my wife and I could not afford a car.  We owned a bus pass.  It's cheap, deadly reliable, and not nearly as fun as owning a car, but life is life.

That said, for some years we bought $800 cars and drove them until somthing big broke, then bought another one.  Insurance was cheaper 20 years ago, and so was everything else car related.  Heck, some days now I think about that bus pass...

[mineroller]

No. 4 - I am getting the white smoke..for a while actually. That's how I found out about coolant leaking. Not too much though, but still some amount of white smoke and that sugarlike smell of burning coolant..

With enough coolant inside Rad and regular oil changes, the engine temperature stays normal and the performance itself hasn't changed too much ever since..still getting reasonably good acceleration and power..I have no clue what's going on INSIDE the engine..

Maybe I should start sending out those win-a-new-car-contests..

[jeeper]

Hi Mineroller,

there're a couple of used cars around $3000.
Yes, its a risk but as far as I can see you have to buy something before your car "dies", and I am pretty sure that a good inspection before buying it will save you from problems.
Some models that I found:

http://www.canadatrader.com/trader/result/affich.asp?rubno=4000&r='2034'&ste =sym&sid=&issr=1&yfr=0&yto=0&kfr=0&kto=0&pfr=500&pto=3000&dm=2&dp=8&mk=&md=&kw=& rc=&or=0&oby=7&pg=36&vid=8918569

http://www.canadatrader.com/trader/result/affich.asp?rubno=4000&r='2034'&ste =sym&sid=&issr=1&yfr=0&yto=0&kfr=0&kto=0&pfr=500&pto=3000&dm=2&dp=8&mk=&md=&kw=& rc=&or=0&oby=7&pg=37&vid=8326656

http://www.canadatrader.com/trader/result/affich.asp?rubno=4000&r='2034'&ste =sym&sid=&issr=1&yfr=0&yto=0&kfr=0&kto=0&pfr=500&pto=3000&dm=2&dp=8&mk=&md=&kw=& rc=&or=0&oby=7&pg=37&vid=13583238

http://www.canadatrader.com/trader/result/affich.asp?rubno=4000&r='2034'&ste =sym&sid=&issr=1&yfr=0&yto=0&kfr=0&kto=0&pfr=500&pto=3000&dm=2&dp=8&mk=&md=&kw=& rc=&or=0&oby=7&pg=38&vid=13524693

http://www.canadatrader.com/trader/result/affich.asp?rubno=4000&r='2034'&ste =sym&sid=&issr=1&yfr=0&yto=0&kfr=0&kto=0&pfr=500&pto=3000&dm=2&dp=8&mk=&md=&kw=& rc=&or=0&oby=7&pg=38&vid=13524715

Maybe you'll drive more 100K or 80K kilometers with them before the engine blows out.
Just my opinion.

[barrie1]

The rad fluid is getting to the oil thru No.1 cylinder where there is crack in the head as well probably the gasket is gone as well. I would switch to real cheap oil and forget changing it as the money is better spent on a Newer car.  The 2.5's are famous for this exact problem.  

[ovr50]

As to the title of this thread, the answer is soon to be - nothing, in fact, you'll pay someone to take it away. LOL.